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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:06 pm
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Main Character: Depreacher
Having different points will mean that eventually some raids just wont be worth doing and we will be back to just the profitable raids.

At the minute a ticker is the fairest option, if raid leaders abuse it then they dont get to be RL anymore.

You can agree to raffle some items but tbh if noone bids they should get raffled anyway. If someone has 3 million raid points and wants a rust pitted ring they should get priority over someone that has just joined the bot and doesnt even know what the ring is. It is better to have a very simple rule that applies to all items than have to have people look up what is and isn't raffled. I can guarantee that you will be explaining the raffle rule in every single raid.

If you want to run a raffle bot as well then run weekly "Lottery" raids where all loot is raffled, but don't give people raid points. I doubt anyone will show up but you all seem to still think that people do these raids for the good of the community, and I think how quiet the bot was and how busy it is now proves that isn't the case.

The points are all or nothing, we implemented them and it has been a huge success now we need to follow through.

Just my opinion of course, all I am trying to do is find the fairest and simplest method that will reduce drama. People don't want a long list of things they need to know.

I am gonna do a merc raid, best look up how many points it is. I need the HNTA why was it raffled? Damn I was looking for the PoP for ages and now some noob has won it for social on a raffle after I raided for a week to get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:42 pm
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Main Character: Gorgin04
The people that were all for raffle compromised and let us add points, but the people for points don't wanna compromise and let some items still be raffled? All this talk about people winning stuff for social, if I have 3 million points, what's stopping me from auctioning it for social anyways? 100% auctioning goes against everything the bot was in the first place. It will just turn into another point farm /q afk zergbot. Sure currently it's still has the same fun, social atmosphere it always did, but that's because it still has pretty much all of the old members that were there from x number of years ago. Atlantean was, at least when I joined, first and foremost about helping people. That's why stuff was 100% raffled. But it became unfair for the ones who were at all the raids to only raffle items. So there was a compromise, and points were added. But the intention wasn't so every item to be auctioned. It was so that people who raided more often has a fairer chance at superloot items that everyone needed/wanted. In all honesty, if Atlantean turns into an auction only point farm bot, I won't raid with it anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:06 pm
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Main Character: Depreacher
Gorgi I like you but threatening to take your ball and go home isn't helpful.

I will of course go with the public opinion but discussion is what we need now and to try to see what is coming in the future and the consequences of our actions.

What you said about the superloot is true but not everyones definition of superloot is the same. We have 2 options we either treat all loot the same or we have a long list of items and what happens to them. The first way is simple and everyone knows what is happening, the second way is complicated and means the raid leader and members of the bot will have to constantly look up the loot table. I favour the first because it is easier to manage, is fairer and will mean less arguments.

Like I said I am just discussing alternatives and will go with the public opinion.

Everyone who thinks we are a chat bot still needs to have a look at what has been happening in the last few days. We are a raid bot now not a social bot with whatever consequences that brings. Forget the idealism the bot will evolve into whatever the environment dictates. We will be the biggest and the best, the most subscribed and the most fun but at the end of the day we fill the place which cant be filled anywhere else, that is for people in small orgs who cant get teams to have somewhere to go to get their Flys. We are and always were a zergbot. Only now we are a fair zergbot.

Last week we were a chat bot with 1 person organising all the raids now we arent


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:17 am
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Location: Netherlands
Main Character: Saavick
I really agree with Depreacher, I strongly think we need to auction all items and not a random selection. The bot has no join requirements and thus a varied group of level ranges and froob/paid combination so which items are uber varies a lot. Besides the rules don't need to be unnecesarily complicated.

Gorgin's view of people in favour of points not willing to come halfway to those in favour of raffles is mostly because of how it's used atm. Coming halfway to those who want points shouldn't mean 'giving points for all raids but only allowing people to bid on half of the loot'.

A viable option IMO would be to have raids where all loot is raffled and no points awarded and to have raids where points are given and all loot can be bid on. If noone bids, it can get raffled still or go FFA. Even though I prefer point raids, I definitely would still come to raffle-based raids for fun and to help out, and of course there's still a chance for loot. But then at least there is still an option to get a guarantee to get the loot you want so badly in the point based raids.

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Last edited by Saavick on Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:42 pm
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Main Character: Gorgin04
Naw I'm not threatening to leave. I'm just sayin' I won't /follow /q afk raid, ever. Ever. Eveeeerrrr. A raffle raid and a points raid separation is much better than auctioning everything or raffling everything. But it's still a separation, and any separation in any social atmosphere will promote 'clique forming'. But meh that's for another show. For now it's the only thing I guess both sides can agree on. I suggest we make a poll and let the bot members decide.


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:39 pm
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Main Character: Jensenberg
I support Gorgin's view here.
Raffle for the 'basic' loot and just auction this dozen 'super' loot items would be a nice idea.
The current system of raffling nodrops and auctioning yesdrops is already pretty close to it and I like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:51 pm 
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Doesnt work too well for specs, carlo, moly, azure, hippocampus apparently

We need a list then if you are outvotin me :p


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:39 pm
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Main Character: Jensenberg
A list hm....
Lets see:

Anything
Heavy Notum Tank Armor
Medium Notum Tank Armor
Light Notum Tank Armor
Rust-Pitted Ring
Soft Ring with Fluff
Expensive Gift from Earth
Fly Catcher's Specs
HI Tokenboards

9 Items in total that I'd personally consider as superloot, so not even a dozen as I thought (although I shamelessly merged all boards).
I don't see why this should not work on Carlo, the Rihwen or the Hippocampus if we lock the raffles there to 219+ for the pets and prolly 180+ for the Hippocampus.
Usually there is only one person in need and in case a really valued member got unlucky in the last few raids, we could still decide before the raid to award him the lootrights for his service on the bot.
Molybdenum and Azure armor are still a matter of discussion, but I'd still vote for raffle.

PS: Happy new year.

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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:17 am
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Main Character: Saavick
Now you're the one not willing to compromise. It's not coming halfway if you only implement it half. That's like buying your kid half a car when he wants one, and then expecting the kid to be happy.
I think doing two type of raids is fairer, whichever type is more popular will automatically get used more.

and a happy new year ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Raid Points Progress - Suggestions Please
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:39 pm
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Main Character: Jensenberg
I think that many raffle-only raids are not going to happen since mainly lower level people without points would join those.. well, plus the usual suspects.
It would be sad to give up the raffles, since its them that make us somewhat special.

I'll remove 1 raindpoint per minute from your account and all your subspace storage devices from your enfo until you decide to support my view :twisted:

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